What defines a hook?

[Tullsterx]

Is a hook in the ear of the belistener? Or is there a definative definition of hookness?

You guys know what I'm talking about. Right?

I've heard people talk about certain songs having 3 or 4 hooks that I would say don't have any. And visa versa. . .

What is a hook?

[Megadeth]

I kind of feel like a song can build up tension and cadence into a hook... for example.. Sargeist, Finnish Black metal band, really grabbed my attention and I sat and thought about why. In their best songs, they use blast beats with a kind of chromatic, messy, tense sounds, then break down into a minor scale really catchy melodic riff. I found it interesting, instead of using the tension a cadence can relieve to end a song, to use it as a hook.

[Stackabones]

I guess you could say that the hook is in the ear of listener. The hook is what sticks with you when the song's over--that catchy chorus, wicked riff, or whatever. It's usually repeated over the course of the song. Not limited to songs, hooks can be found in most musical genres, classical to pop to jazz to tomorrow's next big thing.

Think about the songs you already know--whatever you remember about them is probably the hook.

[Chicken Monkey]

I think the hook depends on the listener, but there are some hooks that are more universal than others.

My working definition is similar to Stackabones'. A lot of times, I'll hear a song on the radio, and I'll be wondering what it is--just drums and some sort of string/keys pad. Then something comes in and I instantly know what song it is--a guitar riff, horn line, bass part, etc. That would be a "hook". A completely random example would be "Ride That Pony" (by Ginuwine, maybe?). I obviously don't know the name of the song or the artist, but once that belchy bass part comes in, I know exactly which song I'm dealing with. A better example would be that guitar line from "My Girl".

Instrumental hooks are awesome, but a pop song NEEDS a vocal/lyrical hook. That way, people can call the radio station to request it. For example, as awesome as the bass line from "Bernadette" by the Four Tops may be, nobody says, "play that song that goes, "babompbomp, baba, baba, bababomp".

Even classical music has "hooks", but they call them "motifs". Think of Beethoven--da da da DUH, da da da DUH. (That's the 9th Symphony, right?) That's gotta be the greatest hook of all time.

[Tullsterx]

So, to paraphrase, the hook is the most readily accesible part of the song.

Or the part that is likely to leave the most people humming. Many times this might involve a great simplicity of structure, like in your Beethoven example.

I think I'm on-board with that definition. The most important part of that definition being the "readily" part. It's that part that jumps out grabs your attention upon your first listen. The second most important part being the "accesible" part. A hook provides the listener with something somewhat familiar that they can "grab on to", be it a familiar refrain that they can understand and relate to, or a simple tune that they can sing or humm easily.

Agree with that?

[Kingnome]

For riff:
My Sharona

For lyrical melody:
8675309

[Stackabones]

Originally posted by Chicken Monkey Think of Beethoven--da da da DUH, da da da DUH. (That's the 9th Symphony, right?) That's gotta be the greatest hook of all time.

That's the opening of the 5th, an excellent example of a melodic and rhythmic hook. :thu:

The 9th has "Ode to Joy" in it, which is also a pretty good hook!

Tullsterx said,the hook is the most readily accesible part of the song.

Sounds good to me.

[bluesway]

i like the posts i've read here, but i don't whole-heartedly agree with them. from where i'm standing, the hook is determined by the writer him/herself. it's the writer's idea of where the intended focus should (naturally) be. it's a conscious decision, most of the time.

most quality songwriters (in market music) are very conscious of where their hooks are and how often and effectively they present themselves. sure, individual listeners will find things within a song that 'hooks' them in a different way than intended, but the hook has already been decided, for the most part.

part of the art of songwriting is in establishing for yourself what the hook is in a piece of your OWN MUSIC. you used the example of someone else's tune with 3-4 hooks (too many, by the way). well that songwriter didn't affect you b/c you said you didn't hear one, but he DID decide on a hook or two and it was his 'plan of attack', if you will - it just didn't get across to you.

[Stackabones]

Originally posted by bluesway
i like the posts i've read here, but i don't whole-heartedly agree with them. from where i'm standing, the hook is determined by the writer him/herself. it's the writer's idea of where the intended focus should (naturally) be. it's a conscious decision, most of the time.

most quality songwriters (in market music) are very conscious of where their hooks are and how often and effectively they present themselves. sure, individual listeners will find things within a song that 'hooks' them in a different way than intended, but the hook has already been decided, for the most part.

part of the art of songwriting is in establishing for yourself what the hook is in a piece of your OWN MUSIC. you used the example of someone else's tune with 3-4 hooks (too many, by the way). well that songwriter didn't affect you b/c you said you didn't hear one, but he DID decide on a hook or two and it was his 'plan of attack', if you will - it just didn't get across to you.

A subtle and true observation. Solid. Hooks are part of the craft, yes! And songwriters should know how to use them.

An interesting, and relevant (I hope) anecdote about the writing of "Breakdown" by Tom Petty. At the beginning of that tune, you'll recall that little guitar hook that precedes the first verse. That guitar hook was first played in the initial recordings at the very end of the tune during the fadeout (an improv moment). As T.P. and Mike Campbell and the producers were listening back and getting it ready for mixing, they heard that lick and knew instantly that it was the instrumental hook. (They already knew they had the vocal hook.) Called the band back into the studio and recut it with that great guitar hook threading itself throughout the tune.

The writer is responsible for coming up with hooks and placing them in context, but sometimes it takes a listener (or luck) to hear them. In this case, the listener was the writer.

But I've been in songwriting situations where someone else noticed that so-and-so part was pretty catchy--and it wasn't the part I thought was the hook! Went back and made that part more prominent.

Great topic & thread. :thu:

[Chicken Monkey]

In response to Bluesway's post, there might be a difference between The Hook and a hook/hooks. You need The Hook in a song, and 3-4 of The Hooks would be too many, but I don't think you can put too many small-h hooks into a song. The stuff that sticks into your brain can never hurt, unless it detracts from The Hook. For example, The Hook is, "Play that funky music, white boy". But throughout the song, you've got that great bass line--bomp bomp bomp ba bow bomp, etc.. Then the opening line, which gets stuck in my head--"Once I was a boogie sing-er", and then, "They were dancing, and swinging, and moving with the grooving", and there are probably a few more (and definitely better examples). The song is loaded with hooks, to it's benefit.

[Tullsterx]

CM, it seems your definition of "hook" includes a big focus on a resonating lyrical theme. That's interesting. I don't normally think that way when considering hooks. I'm mainly thinking of chord/melody/rhythm when considering hooks. I think I've been short-sighted in that regard to some extent.

Also, while I agree with the idea of artistic integrity and all that, I think any definition of "hook" must include a reference to mass appeal. The part of the song that draws the most people in. . .

[bluesway]

Originally posted by Tullsterx


Also, while I agree with the idea of artistic integrity and all that, I think any definition of "hook" must include a reference to mass appeal. The part of the song that draws the most people in. . .

yes, but it's not necessarily artistic integrity that I was referring to. it's strategic marketing in a sonic package! you are right, though. the hook is for mass appeal, but you can tell most of the time what will be appealing when you're writing it, no?

suggesting that it's purely listener-driven places hooks in the realm of sinergistic phenomena and has the connotation of deleting the creator from it altogether. that's not the case; it's planned. (although i do agree if you want to argue that the life it takes on in the listener's mind is synergy - that's what makes what we do beautiful. (and i think that's what you're all referring to)

[Tullsterx]

Yeah, I think it's a delicate balance between an artist's perceptions and listener's potential perceptions. No argument there.

As a songwriter I often struggle with the concept of with what I consider appealing vs. what others consider appealing. I mean, I go through hundreds of ideas and pick the ones I like. I wonder how many I let go that are really better to lots of other people. I'm usually surprised when I hear what people like of mine and what they don't.

I think that's a major factor in what makes a good songwriter; picking the best ideas from your stream of imagination. It's kinda like actors picking good roles or not. How do you pick the best ideas from your own imagination pot?

[Tullsterx]

Quoted from rsadasiv:

Hookiness
sounds like a Stephen Colbert word.

First off, the "What defines a hook" is the best thread in this forum for quite a while. Props to everyone who posted.

To pick up on ChickenMonkey's "The HOOK/a hook" distinction, I think a better word for "a hook" is riff (and it costs a lot less than 5 dollars). And to pick up on Bluesway's "it's about presentation" point, I think that a riff can become a hook when the entire song is structured around the repetition and presentation of that one riff (and by this definition, as Bluesway goes on to point out, 3-4 HOOKS per song is 2-3 too many).

One point I would like to add (a small extension to Bluesway's definition) is that genre plays a big part in hookiness. If you are writing a pop song, it's all about the hook. If you are writing a rock song, 3-4 good riffs will get you through.

I will leave Beethoven out of this post - his music is undeniably great, melodic and memorable and I'll leave it at that.

I think repetition is a huge part of what I consider a hook. While people have tried defining the hook as the most memorable portion of a song, I think this focuses on the effect rather than the cause. The hook (in a well written pop song) is the most frequently repeated portion of the song - that's why you remember it so well.

[rsadasiv]

Pop songs are for kids - it's all about the feeling of one ineffable moment, encapsulated in that HOOK

As an example, the chorus to "Satisfaction" perfectly encapulates a teenage boy masturbating to climax in three strokes. If Keith Richards had cut the verse riff he could have had a really good pop song on his hands.

[jbush4]

Originally posted by Tullsterx
So, to paraphrase, the hook is the most readily accesible part of the song.


i always thought the hook was the part of the song that takes you away from the readily accesible parts. (??) maybe not.

[Stackabones]

Originally posted by jbush4


i always thought the hook was the part of the song that takes you away from the readily accesible parts. (??) maybe not.

Maybe not.

I'm not sure what you're confusing hook with. The first image I got was of vaudeville when they jerked the bad act off the stage with a shepherd's hook! :p