GUYTRONIX ARDMORE AND GILMORE JR (tube amp kits)

[Phil O'Keefe]

In this review, we're going to be taking a close look at a couple of Gary Gerhart designed tube guitar amp "DIY" kits from Guytronix - the 8 Watt EL84 based Ardmore ($299, direct from www.guytronix.com ), and the $249 1/2 watt (2 watt optional) Gilmore Jr.

First off, a couple of disclaimers. Normally, a reviewer obtains a "loaner" of the product to be reviewed, and return or purchase it at the end of the review process. In this case, we're dealing with a pair of tube amp kits, and as such, they can't really be assembled and reviewed and then returned in the same state as they arrived in. :) And since putting together a tube amp takes a certain amount of time and labour (stay tuned to this thread for an idea of exactly how little or much ;) ), and since that itself has value (IOW, the company can take the returned / completed amp and sell it for more than the price of an unbuilt kit), Rich at Guytronix and I negotated a deal where I would built both kits, do the review with complete freedom, and send back only one of the completed amps. That way, he doesn't profit from my build time, and I "pay" for whichever amp I decide to keep by the labor I put into building the amp I return. So right upfront, you know I'm keeping one of these two kits... and since these are Pro Reviews, you're all invited to participate and help keep things honest and above board. :)

There are many potential uses for a small, low power, yet toneful tube amp. Practice at home and recording purposes are two places where such amps are commonly used. In this review, I hope to cover the actual kits themselves, the build process and the difficulty level and experience / skills you'll need if you decide to build one, and what level of customer service and assistance you can expect to recieve from Guytronix. Additionally, we're going to fire up the studio and do some tracking of the completed amps so that everyone can get an idea of how these amps sound, with particular attention to how well they perform in a studio recording environment - after all, this IS a studio forum. ;) :D But we'll also break out the SPL meter and see just how loud a 1/2 or 8 watt head really gets. That should be of interest to those who are considering one of these amps to use for practice.

What I'd like from you is your participation. Let me know if you have any questions. If something's not clear, point it out. If you have built one of these amps, feel free to voice your opinions about them and tell us about your experiences. Rich from Guytronix will also be participating and will be making comments and answering questions as appropriate as well. He's a good guy, and you'll find him easygoing, knowledgeable and helpful. :thu: I'll also be asking for suggestions regarding what you want to hear insofar as clips, and we might even try to set up an in-studio session (at my place) with a few of you to let you get some hands-on, in person playing and listening time with the completed amps. We can track some clips of your playing, and give you an opportunity to tell everyone what you think based off firsthand experience playing through the completed amps. If you're interested in participating in that part of the review, please let us know.

Ready? :)

[amplayer]

I'd be happy to put two of them together in order to keep one for only the labor. My soldering station is ready to go. Then again, since I'm nobody...
:D

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by amplayer
I'd be happy to put two of them together in order to keep one for only the labor. My soldering station is ready to go. Then again, since I'm nobody...
:D

So am I... I just thought of the idea before you did. :p ;) :o :D

[UstadKhanAli]

It sounds like a cool idea, Phil.

[seaneldon]

uh oh. i kind of want a Melrose. and a Ventura. and right now there's nothing stopping me from buying them.

[Phil O'Keefe]

My next installment of this review will be up in a day or two guys... I need to notify Rich that we've started, and I have to get some photos uploaded to my site first. :)

[Richard Guy]

Hello Phil,

I am poised and ready to participate.

[Phil O'Keefe]

:thu:

One less phone call I have to make today! :D

[UstadKhanAli]

I might be interested in the last part of that review process too (playing, evaluating, hanging out). Thanks.

[amplayer]

Yeah, I'd be interested in playing and hanging out too. Would anyone volunteer to send me a plane ticket?:D

[danbomb]

You are in for a treat- the kits from Guytronix are foolproof and complete. Absolutely no missing parts or problems. Great documentation and killer tone! I have demoed my 1/2 watt through multiple cabinets for some of the best ears around and everyone was blown away.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Good to have you with us danbomb - especially since you've personally built a Gilmore Jr. :cool:

[danbomb]

I actually knocked it out in 6 1/2 hours while drinking Jack&Coke! I could probably do one in 4 hours now that I have one under my belt. I used to work at Tophat in '98 wiring up amps.

[amplayer]

Originally posted by danbomb
I actually knocked it out in 6 1/2 hours while drinking Jack&Coke! I could probably do one in 4 hours now that I have one under my belt. I used to work at Tophat in '98 wiring up amps.

Somehow I have a feeling your experience might make it a bit easier for you than the average Joe.:idea:

[Richard Guy]

Took me 8 1/2 hours while drinking coffee and having a torn rotator cuff :freak:

[jonmatifa]

I can't wait to hear about this, something about a DYI kit seems very enticing, maybe its the level of personalization you get that you can't when buying some amp off the shelf.

[dougb415]

In the past few months we've picked up a 10-watt Tech21 Trademark 10 and a 5-watt Epiphone Valve Junior. These low-powered amps are lots of fun :cool:

Any thoughts as to what type of speaker enclosure you'll be using, or will you build that as well?

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by dougb415
In the past few months we've picked up a 10-watt Tech21 Trademark 10 and a 5-watt Epiphone Valve Junior. These low-powered amps are lots of fun :cool:

Any thoughts as to what type of speaker enclosure you'll be using, or will you build that as well?

Rich has some specific recommendations that I'll let him fill you in on. Here at my place, I have various different things available; some of them are speakers in other amps that I can jumper to for the tests... an E/V 12" in a Princeton II cab, a Fender blue label 10" in a Super Champ, a Marshall 1960a 4X12" with the stock 75W Celestions, the stock Fender Utah 12's in a '72 Twin, etc.

Guytronix (http://www.guytronix.com) has some optional head enclosures for the amp kits available as well, and that may also be a source for a speaker cabinet... Rich? :confused:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Also, these amp kits will handle anything from a 4 Ohm to 16 Ohm speaker load. :wave:

[Phil O'Keefe]

So you make your amp kit order, and a few days later the box shows up via Prioity Mail - I was actually impressed with how fast that was. :)

Opening the box reveals an expert packing job. Everything is set in the box in an organized manner, and individual elements of the kit are wrapped seperately.

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/001.jpg

Pulling everything out of the bubblewrap and packing paper reveals this:

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/004.jpg

Again, you'll notice that everything is well organized. One example - polarized parts such as diodes and polarized capacitors are placed into a seperate bag - which is handy for old hands and new builders alike, since these parts require special attention to their orientation when they're being installed.

[Richard Guy]

Hello,

To follow up regarding Phil's points of light, yes, the amp sounds very good with 4,8 or 16 ohm loads but seems to favor 16 ohms.

I've pushed the following speakers with the Gilmore Jr; 12" EV in a Mesa 1/2 back cab, 4x12 circa '73 Ampeg V4 with two ceramic Weber Blue Dogs up top and two ceramic Silver Bells down below, a 4x8 custom cab with two Weber Alnico 8A125Ts up top and two Alnico 8A125s down below, 4x12 1960A Marshall with 75 watters, 1x10 Weber Blue Pup, 2x8 combo with Weber Alnico 8A125 and 8A125T, 1x10 and 1x8 95% closed back cabinets from Marshall MG Series Mini/Micro Stacks.

My Favorites are the Weber 8A125s, 8A125Ts, 10" Blue Pup and the two Marshall Mini/Micro Stack (MG Series) cabinets with 'knock-off' Celestions in both 8" and 10". I am very surprised at how good those 'Far-East' speakers sound.

Although these are my favorites, the other configurations sounded very good too. For the most part, it is very tough to find a speaker that sounds bad with the Gilmore Jr.

Regarding enclosures and such; we will soon be releasing a combo cabinet that houses a 10" speaker that can be Customer supplied or a 'sound-qualified' speaker from us. Some time ago, we offered a new optical compressor as a prize-drawing for those who replied to an inquiry regarding what the Customer is looking for in a low-watt combo. We've taken all of the input and designed the new combo enclosure around those Customer thoughts. In addition, we have qualified a couple of enclosure/cabinetry builders to address Customer designed ideas. We are most happy to steer our Customers to those firms so that they can work out the pricing and details directly with the enclosure manufacturers.

[Phil O'Keefe]

So now that we have the box open and we can see everything that's included, let's talk a little bit about what ISN'T included.

And the answer to that is really "not much". :thu: There's plenty of wire in the kits, and even the shrinkwrap is included, along with tubes and all the parts you need for the build. Actually, I was missing one or two minor things, but if you find something is missing from your kit, a quick call or email to Rich will get that taken care of in few days via priority mail with no questions or hassles. But pretty much everything you need to build the amp is in the kit, with the following exceptions:

You've going to need a soldering iron, desoldering tool (bulb or wick), some flux, maybe a tinning block, a pair of pliers or a nutdriver, a screwdriver or two, wire strippers and side cutters - basic hand tools. Oh yeah - a multimeter. You don't need an oscilloscope to build these kits, but a decent multimeter is a must have. I used one of these (http://www.radioshack.com/sm-22-range-pocket-digital-multimeter--pi-2104114.html), and it worked fine for the job. http://rsk.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pRS1C-2266866w345.jpg

Additionally, as you'll see in some of the soon to be posted pictures, a Panavise is a useful item to have around when working on jobs like this. I used this one:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000B61D22.01-A2SHU9394LE8AJ._PE14_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

You can get them here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B61D22/qid=1135492367/sr=1-28/ref=sr_1_28/103-2915437-5925441?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013) for about $20.

You're going to also need some solder. I used silver solder, but any good rosin core solder should work fine.

I was actually going to combine this review with a review of the Cold Heat (www.coldheat.com ) soldering tool... I actually ordered one, but it took nearly two months to arrive. :( And while I started the Gilmore Jr Build with it, I quickly grew frustrated with it. Frankly, it's a handy tool to have around for quick, lightweight soldering jobs, but it's just not up to the task of a build like this. Get a decent soldering station or iron - I used a Weller soldering station.

And as Rich alluded to, there is no speaker included with the basic kits. There isn't a traditional "cabinet" or head enclosure either, although two wooden end caps are included that will work fine if you're not going to be taking the head out to gigs or away somewhere to practice on a frequent basis. You can leave the wood bare, but a little stain and some clear coat will make them look better.

The on / off and standby switches are labeled, but other than that, none of the controls are labeled, nor is there any other labeling included in the kits. With so few controls, that's really not a significant issue, but if you'd like to dresss up your kit, decal and lettering kits that you can print out on your computer are available at most hobby shops.

Okay, everyone have their tools and supplies ready? We're going to dive into the actual builds... (drum roll please... ;) )

[Phil O'Keefe]

The approach you'll likely take to doing the build is going to depend largely on your skill and experience level. While a seasoned pro can easily assemble these kits with just the color-coded wiring diagram, schematic, and maybe the parts list, I recommend that everyone check out the manuals. They are generally well written and make everything quite clear - even if you're not a grizzled vet with the solder scars to prove it. :eek: ;)

The first step, after you get everything organized is to insert the various chassis mounted components. You'll need the phillips head screwdriver and the pliers (or nutdriver) for this. These parts include the potentiometers (volume and tone controls), fuseholder, IEC power receptacle, tube sockets, LED power indicator, on/off and standby switches, tube sockets, input and speaker output jacks, as well as the power and speaker transformers.

Here's a shot of the chassis with all of the above mentioned chassis mounted parts installed:

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/008.jpg

The next order of business is to mark the turret board. That's the light greenish board in the center of the chassis in the second picture on page one. As the manual points out, writing the pin numbers (as shown in the building instructions) directly on the board makes things much easier on you, avoids potential mistakes and confusion, and will come in handy when doing your final testing and troubleshooting - but hopefully you'll be able to avoid that last part. ;)

After getting the posts on the turret board marked (a fine tip Sharpie works well for that, but even a Sharpie will smudge if you wipe it too hard or too much), the next step is to attach several short wire leads to various pins on the board. The color of the wires really doesn't matter, although as the manual points out, a color code that corresponds to different destination types can make things a bit easier on you later.

Here's a shot of the Gilmore Jr board, being held in the Panavise, with the wires attached:

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/011.jpg

You should also be able to see that I used the Sharpie to mark the tube pins on the ceramic sockets - that's another useful suggestion you'll find in the manual.

All of this is fairly easy to do. A couple of notes and cautions though!

First of all, you should be careful whenever you are working with the transformers so that you do not put any excessive pull or strain on the wires. They're quality components (made by Mercury Magnetics - good stuff), and the most expensive items in the kits - so use caution and never "yank on the wires". When you're mounting the transformers to the chassis, guide them through the appropriate holes gently and with as little pulling force at the point where the wires enter the transformer as possible. And take care not to kink or pinch the wires between the chassis and the transformer housings.

Secondly, the transformer mounting holes at first may appear not to line up perfectly with the right holes in the chassis. Don't let that alarm you - a little pull on the outer mounting flanges of the trannys will seperate them far enough to reach comfortably.

Also, while we're at the point of starting to solder, a little caution is in order. If you've never built anything before, and never soldered, you could probably still manage to build one of these kits and wind up with a working amp... but it's going to be a challenge for you, and require a little extra work on your part. Get some scrap wire and parts (a broken radio can do for parts in a pinch), and do some practice soldering. If you don't know how, get someone to show you, or feel free to ask for help on this forum. :) Remember - always heat the work, and not the solder itself. Go slowly - this is a cool little amp you're bulding, and you want it to be something you can be proud of, right? ;) And a note on safety - solder is HOT and it, or the soldering iron can cause some pretty serious burns... so be careful. Use a good work surface, and not mom's (or wife's) bare kitchen table. Hot solder flows like water and drips like water, so if water would drip from the soldering point and land on you, chances are that sooner or later, so will the solder. And while we're talking safety, only solder in a well ventilated area, and avoid breathing the solder fumes. There's nasty stuff in there that you really shouldn't be sniffing - and no, it won't get you high, so don't even go there.

I think this is a good place to stop if you're takig your time (you should!) and doing it a bit at a time each evening.

A pro should have no problem doing all of this in under two hours... maybe even one. A beginner might need three. or even four. Remember - it's not a race... s/he who builds fastest doesn't win - it's s/he who builds best. ;)

[Richard Guy]

Nice Pics Phil! Great detail. What camera are you using?

Rosin Core solder 60/40 or 63/37 is very good to use. Since Phil was using silver solder, the flux was helpful. Flux is not recommended for novice builders as the flux, if used too heavily, can melt/run into the base areas of the tube sockets and cause issues. This is true with any electronic project. Phil has been soldering since the Chicago Fire. Don't worry Phil, we won't tell who started it ;^) :freak:

[Bruce Bennett]

The Gilmore Jr is an awesome kit and Rich is a great Guy to deal with ( oops, sorry about the pun)

Mine came together without a hitch and was a snap to build.
and my homemade cab with a single 12" Jensen sounded KILLER.

Great job Rich, you should be very proud.

[Richard Guy]

Thanks Bruce! I've been reading a lot of good things about the tone of your pedals :)

Merry Christmas to You and Your Family

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Nice Pics Phil! Great detail. What camera are you using?

Rosin Core solder 60/40 or 63/37 is very good to use. Since Phil was using silver solder, the flux was helpful. Flux is not recommended for novice builders as the flux, if used too heavily, can melt/run into the base areas of the tube sockets and cause issues. This is true with any electronic project. Phil has been soldering since the Chicago Fire. Don't worry Phil, we won't tell who started it ;^) :freak:

Oops, my "secret" is out. :o ;) :D

Good point about the flux Rich. I actually only needed to use it in a few spots, and you're right - if you use standard rosin core solder, you won't really need to use flux.

[Phil O'Keefe]

BTW, the camera is a Fuji... I'll have to check on the model number, but it's not super-new or high tech... IIRC, it's a 2 or 3 megapixel model.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Nice job on the build Bruce. :thu:

[kannibul]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe
In this review, we're going to be taking a close look at a couple of Gary Gerhart designed tube guitar amp "DIY" kits from Guytronix - the 8 Watt EL84 based Ardmore ($299, direct from www.guytronix.com ), and the $249 1/2 watt (2 watt optional) Gilmore Jr.

First off, a couple of disclaimers. Normally, a reviewer obtains a "loaner" of the product to be reviewed, and return or purchase it at the end of the review process. In this case, we're dealing with a pair of tube amp kits, and as such, they can't really be assembled and reviewed and then returned in the same state as they arrived in. :) And since putting together a tube amp takes a certain amount of time and labour (stay tuned to this thread for an idea of exactly how little or much ;) ), and since that itself has value (IOW, the company can take the returned / completed amp and sell it for more than the price of an unbuilt kit), Rich at Guytronix and I negotated a deal where I would built both kits, do the review with complete freedom, and send back only one of the completed amps. That way, he doesn't profit from my build time, and I "pay" for whichever amp I decide to keep by the labor I put into building the amp I return. So right upfront, you know I'm keeping one of these two kits... and since these are Pro Reviews, you're all invited to participate and help keep things honest and above board. :)

There are many potential uses for a small, low power, yet toneful tube amp. Practice at home and recording purposes are two places where such amps are commonly used. In this review, I hope to cover the actual kits themselves, the build process and the difficulty level and experience / skills you'll need if you decide to build one, and what level of customer service and assistance you can expect to recieve from Guytronix. Additionally, we're going to fire up the studio and do some tracking of the completed amps so that everyone can get an idea of how these amps sound, with particular attention to how well they perform in a studio recording environment - after all, this IS a studio forum. ;) :D But we'll also break out the SPL meter and see just how loud a 1/2 or 8 watt head really gets. That should be of interest to those who are considering one of these amps to use for practice.

What I'd like from you is your participation. Let me know if you have any questions. If something's not clear, point it out. If you have built one of these amps, feel free to voice your opinions about them and tell us about your experiences. Rich from Guytronix will also be participating and will be making comments and answering questions as appropriate as well. He's a good guy, and you'll find him easygoing, knowledgeable and helpful. :thu: I'll also be asking for suggestions regarding what you want to hear insofar as clips, and we might even try to set up an in-studio session (at my place) with a few of you to let you get some hands-on, in person playing and listening time with the completed amps. We can track some clips of your playing, and give you an opportunity to tell everyone what you think based off firsthand experience playing through the completed amps. If you're interested in participating in that part of the review, please let us know.

Ready? :)

Any clips on the Ardmore? I've heard the Cilmore and it was OK, not really my thing, but still cool.

[Cowinacape]

Subscribed, can't wait for the rest of the updates! Great article so far!

Edit....man I should really finish my first pot of coffee in the morning, before I try and type.....:freak:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Any clips on the Ardmore? I've heard the Gilmore and it was OK, not really my thing, but still cool.

We'll be getting to that - please stay tuned. :)

And as I mentioned before, we'll see if we can't get some of you to come by the studio and supply the hot licks while I take care of the recording part. ;)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Cowinacape
Subscribed, can't wait for the nest updates! Great article so far!

Thanks Dan. :o :)

[Richard Guy]

Hello Kannibul,

There are four sound clips on my web site of the Ardmore Amp. Here is a link to the area;

http://www.guytronix.com/pages/5/index.htm

Thanks for asking.

[kannibul]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hello Kannibul,

There are four sound clips on my web site of the Ardmore Amp. Here is a link to the area;

http://www.guytronix.com/pages/5/index.htm

Thanks for asking.

Hey Richard :)

I checked those out last night after my post - pretty good!

[Ancient Mariner]

Looks interesting, in a Christmas-afternoon-build kind of way. A nice simple kit to get someone started. Look forward to hearing it too.

[Richard Guy]

Guys,

Thanks for the kind regards.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Ancient Mariner
Looks interesting, in a Christmas-afternoon-build kind of way. A nice simple kit to get someone started. Look forward to hearing it too.

Yup, if you're an experienced builder, you could probably knock one out in an afternoon. IMO, they're definitely a kit that would be suitable as a "first amp project" type build. As far as tone and features of the amps, we'll be getting to that. Stay tuned. :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Since I've gotten a few PM's asking about the Cold Heat soldering tool, I'll make a couple of quick comments before we move on.

The Cold Heat tool uses a carbon based "split" tip. It's actually somewhat fragile and can be easily broken if you apply too much pressure or force to it, although I have not managed to break a tip yet. The Cold Heat soldering iron comes in two versions - a standard model and a "pro" model. I bought one of each to test. A "standard" model from my local Radio Shack, which I purchased while waiting for the "backordered" pro unit that I purchased online to arrive. The pro model is definitely the one to get, since it has more power and a high and low power setting. The optional magnifying glass attachment is pretty much worthless - I thought it would be nice to have - especially since my eyesight at very close distances and for fine detail has really deteroriated over the past couple of years (middle age sux in some respects), but attaching it - and keeping it attached to the iron is tricky, and getting it angled right so that it's not in the way of what you're working on, doesn't block the iron's built in light, and still allows you a magnified view of what you're working on is an excersize in frustration.

The tip of the Cold Heat iron doesn't get hot until the two halves of the split tip make contact to the same piece of metal, thus completing an electrical circuit and causing the tip (and hopefully the work) to heat up. A red LED lights up when the tip is making proper contact. The biggest problem I had was getting both halves of the tip to touch the same thing at the same time. Even when I could see (using an external magnifying glass attached to a boom) that it was making proper contact, the LED didn't always light up and the work didn't heat up. Once it does, the iron - even the "pro" model - really lacks the power to properly heat the work unless you hold VERY still (keeping that connection "just so") for a while while the work heats properly, and in my experience, it takes considerably longer than doing the job with a good traditional soldering iron.

After trying this tool for a while, on a couple of different types of things (not just these amp kits), I would tire of the fiddling and just break out the Weller. It does work as advertised in the sense that it does cool down very quickly - unless you still happen to have a small blob of solder stuck between the two halves of the tip, in which case it might remain hot... so in that respect, it does what it says it does. But it really lacks the speed and power of a good traditional iron, and I personally can't recommend it for much beyond a quick cable or switch repair. Having it around for that can be useful though.

[Richard Guy]

To add to Phils above soldering iron message; please do not use soldering 'guns' for any electronic soldering that especially has solid state (transistors, FETs, MOSFETs, diodes, integrated circuit chips, etc) components as the soldering 'gun' types inject current into the work while operating and can damage the circuit. I like using a Weller soldering station with an adjustable heat range to 850 F. For a stand-alone soldering iron, I recomment a wattage of no less than 30 watts. I tend to like 35 watters and above.

[Phil O'Keefe]

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/023.jpg

My next post will reference this picture, but in the interests of easier to read text formatting, I'm posting this seperately. ;)

[Scott Glover]

Why not just buy a Pod :confused:

[dsquared]

Originally posted by Scott Glover
Why not just buy a Pod :confused:

There's no kit for a Pod. :D

[jonmatifa]

Why drink wine when you could just drink tap water?

[danbomb]

I hand soldered some of the early pods and I can tell you it was no walk in the park! Surface mount is a major bitch compared to point-to-point tube amps.

[Danocoustic]

Got my Gilmore Jr. kit back in August. Got nothing but good things to say about it and about Richard Guy's customer service. The kit was easy to build, thanks to the clear instructions and quality components, but I still had a few questions...and Rich was very prompt and thorough in answering them.

I've since added the V mod and the 2-watt mod; both serve my needs to a T.

Rich also helped me acquire a pair of Weber speakers for this amp; unfortunately, I haven't been able to afford the materials to build the cabinets yet. Been running it through a 2x12 cab and it sounds GOOD. I expect great results when I get the 2x8, 16 ohm cab put together.

I rate this: :thu:

[alcohol]

Originally posted by Scott Glover
Why not just buy a Pod :confused:

I personally don't like the tone of a Pod. The digital recreation of analog tones just don't sound as good.

[FWAxeIbanez]

anybody care to elaborate on why the Cold Heat tool just isn't suited well? would the newer Cold Heat Plus do the trick a little better? as you can tell I haven't soldered much...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Sorry for the delay, let's continue. :)

If you look at the last photo I posted, you can see that the components have been soldered to the turret board. That's your next step. It's really not difficult, but there are a couple of things to keep in mind:

First of all, when applying more than one component that attaches to the same turret point, it's usually best to solder all of them at once. Just wrap all of the components 1/2 way around the turret post, and then solder them all at once. Then use the side cutters to remove any excess length of wire from the components, as close to the turret as you can get. You'll probably find it easiest to install everything if you start at one side of the turret board and work your way across the board to the opposite side.

Another thing to be careful of is getting the orientation of any polarized parts correct. Again, all of the polarized parts, such as the black with blue striped capacitors and the diodes (the components at the far right side of the board in the picture above) are seperately bagged in the kit, and clearly marked on the components and in the instructions to help you know which way to install them. For electronics vets, this is simple stuff, but if you've never built anything like this before, you'll appreciate the extra thought that went into seperating these parts in an effort to make things easier for you. :) Getting the orientation of polarized parts is crucial - install these parts backwards / "reversed" and your amp isn't going to function properly.

This is a good spot in the review to make a little confession. If you're an old timer like me, then you might have problems with close distance vision. Yup, I confess - I use reading glasses these days... but even with them, I sometimes had difficulty reading resistor color codes. Your multimeter can come in handy there... just set it to measure resistance, and rather than having to struggle and squint to make sure you've got the colors (and thus the value) figured out correctly, stick the meter's probes on each wire end of the resistor, and you'll get the value displayed in big numbers on your meter. That's one reason I like digital multimeters. ;) :D Just be aware that resistors have a tolerance range - IOW, the actual value of the resistor when measured with a meter may not be exactly what is called for in the instructions, but it should be within a certain range - +/-2% or whatever, depending on the tolerance. So if you use a meter to help you sort through the resistors and check their values, don't be concerned that they're not dead on exact to the schematic. A good work light and maybe a magnifying glass can also be helpful when trying to use tired old eyes to see fine details. ;) And when all else fails, give Rich a call. Again, I confess - I had to do this on two parts of one of the two kits (I just couldn't make out the markings) and Rich was more than helpful with it.

Make sure you double check your work as you go along. "Measure twice, cut once" is good advice for electronics as well as carpentry... ;) Just go slow and make sure you're using the right parts in the right place. If you're an inexperienced builder, once you have everything mounted to the turret board and have double checked everything, it's a good time to take a break.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by FWAxeIbanez
anybody care to elaborate on why the Cold Heat tool just isn't suited well? would the newer Cold Heat Plus do the trick a little better? as you can tell I haven't soldered much...

I wrote a few general comments and opinions about the Cold Heat soldering tools - you can find them near the bottom of page two (second post from the bottom) of this thread. :)

[FWAxeIbanez]

yes you sure can... how did I miss that? well, I guess I'll go run by and dig around in my grandpa's garage, he had a ton of soldering irons around...

[Richard Guy]

Yes, Soldering Irons, pencil type, 30 ~ 40 Watts. 60/40 (Tin/Lead %) or 63/37 Solder. No flux. No soldering gun types as they inject potentials that can damage some electronic parts.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, next up is the wiring for the transformers, tube sockets and chassis mounted parts. On this step you will want to plan things out a little bit first, before doing the soldering. Once again, the manual defiitely points this out.

Notice that some of the wires in the picture above are "twisted". That's helpful for reducing noise, and the manual points out which wires have got to be twisted (the green wires going to the tube sockets in the picture above), as well as suggesting what other wires you may also want to twist. Just be careful once again not to pull on the wires near the transformers. Holding the wires near where they come through the chassis holes with one hand while twisting with the other will prevent you from twisting or pulling on the wires at the transformers.

Leave yourself plenty of wire to reach the places you need to get them to. And again, give some thought to the routing, and plan things out before you start cutting wire and soldering so that you can bundle and tie wrap the appropriate wires together for a nice clean build.

One thing that I noticed was omitted from the manuals is any mention of the "extra" wires from the power transformer. That's going to confuse some new builders, and it is something that Guytronix should consider correcting in the next edition of the manual. Just cut the wire ends off evenly (without stripping), apply some heatshrink tubing over the ends and bundle them seperately.

Another thing you may have a bit of trouble with is some of the chassis mounted star grounding points. The tabs all sit pretty flat, making it difficult to thread the wires through the holes. No big deal - just pull the nut off and gently bend the tab ends up a little bit with a couple pairs of pliers... or you can use a flathead screwdriver to bend the tips upwards a bit if you prefer. In either case, make sure the nut is tightened firmly to insure nothing comes loose and gives you grounding problems.

[Scott Glover]

Originally posted by alcohol


I personally don't like the tone of a Pod. The digital recreation of analog tones just don't sound as good.

I don't either and I own one, but I bet those amps sound very good ;)

[Richard Guy]

Phil's recommendations are valid regarding the extra primary transformer wires. The extra wires are for;

100 VAC
120 VAC
220 VAC
240 VAC

These different value windings/wires are to support any Country's AC voltage as we ship and support our kits World-wide.

Yes, select the wire that matches your Country AC voiltage and cut the rest back an inch or so, wrapping each of them in shrink-wrap or electrical tape. The color of each wire and it's AC volt application is defined in the manual ;^)

Guytronix will put a line in the manual that describes what to do with the unused primary VAC wires. Thanks, Phil, for making the documentation bullet-proof :thu:

[rog951]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
>>>Thanks, Phil, for making the documentation bullet-proof :thu: <<<

Now, I KNOW you wanted to say "idiot-proof" but I can see where that might not be the most professional way to describe your customers! ;)

I definitely plan on picking up one of these kits sometime in the near future, so please let us know when you see a price increase on the horizon. I would've bought one earlier but I'm already backed-up with "projects" as it is and don't really need another one sitting around cluttering up the house. Do you think current prices will hold 'til, say, summertime-ish?

[Richard Guy]

Hello Rog951,

Thanks for your understanding. I almost used the old Navy term, "Sailor-Proof".

Funny you should ask about a price increase. We just had one. The Kit has been at the same price for over 38 months. Increases in component, chassis, G-10 material and transformer iron drove the modest increase. If you send an email to support@guytronix.com with this request, I'll honor the original price for 45 days. None of the accessories were increased.

[FWAxeIbanez]

oh man... I want to build one of these so bad it hurts, but money I was counting on fell through, so now I'm on the outside looking in

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hello Rog951,

Thanks for your understanding. I almost used the old Navy term, "Sailor-Proof". Thanks for not telling that I was one of the sailors who asked this very question!

I e-mailed Rich to ask about the extra xfmr leads. He answered within hours.

[Richard Guy]

Hello Dano,

No, you were not one of those bad sailors! You question was very valid and helped make the current documentation better. You did a great job building the Kit. Thanks again for being my Customer.

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hello Dano,

No, you were not one of those bad sailors! You question was very valid and helped make the current documentation better. You did a great job building the Kit. Thanks again for being my Customer. ...just gimme a break on the price of an Ardmore when I order it... ;)

[Richard Guy]

Dano, roger. I love repeat Customers :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/036.jpg

More to come - sorry for the delay... NAMM and the studio schedule are kicking my butt. :(

[AMZ-FX]

Here is a pic of the Gilmore Jr. atop my big amp cabinet:

http://70.159.131.67/media/misc/Pict0058.jpg

I have this amp on loan from Rich so I didn't have to build it :D

The sound is very smooth and rich. It is much louder than a 1/2w solid-state amp that I own, which is based on the LM386 chip.

Lots of great tube tone in this little amp... AND... it loves pedals. A boost or overdrive only add to the enjoyment of this gem!

I'm sure you will enjoy it immensely, Phil.

best regards, Jack

[Buckeyedog]

which would you think would be a better "first build".....the Jr. or the Ardmore??

Thanks

[Richard Guy]

Hello Buckeye,

Thanks for your inquiry. Phil should chime in here too as he built both Kits. My experience is that the Gilmore Jr is a bit easier to build than the Ardmore, but not significantly easier. They are both very close regarding difficulty. Currently, the Gilmore Jr has more optional tone/gain mods that are field proven. This provides for interesting experiments after the unit is built 'stock'. If it were me building for the first time, I would build the Gilmore Jr. The most important thing to remember is Electronics Safety when building/testing. The next important item is having adaquate soldering skills. I recommend that for first time builders, that they get some trashed equipment from the curb and unsolder/solder components for pratice. 60/40 or 63/37 solder, no flux and a ~ 35 to 45 Watt soldering pencil is fine.

[Danocoustic]

Hey...Rich Guy turned me on to a cool thing.

I got the 2 watt mod. It needs a tube socket adapter and a new tube.

There's an unused socket hole on the Gilmore Jr. chassis.

Rich sent me a ceramic socket to bolt into the open hole, to store the unused tube.

Very :cool:

[olgluefoot]

Hey there,
just wondering if the power light that comes with the kit could be replaced with a fender jewel style light? thanks :cool:

[titovanburen]

is the armore loud enough to use in live situations with a rock band?

[Richard Guy]

Hello Gluefoot,

Yes, a 6.3 VAC Fender-ish (heater supplier voltage) jewl light is easily installed into the Gilmore or Ardmore Kits.

[Richard Guy]

Hello TiTo,

The Ardmore is pretty loud at ~ 8 Watts but may fall short of using it live for heavy rock. The tone is there, but the volume may not be unless you mic the speaker and run it through the PA. Heavy ' ham-fisted' drummers are very tought to compete with ;) :freak:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Hey...Rich Guy turned me on to a cool thing.

I got the 2 watt mod. It needs a tube socket adapter and a new tube.

There's an unused socket hole on the Gilmore Jr. chassis.

Rich sent me a ceramic socket to bolt into the open hole, to store the unused tube.

Very :cool:

That IS a cool idea! :idea: :thu: Actually, that might be something you might want to consider adding into the 2 watt mod kit Richard. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate that. :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Lots of great tube tone in this little amp... AND... it loves pedals. A boost or overdrive only add to the enjoyment of this gem!

Stick a HBE Germania in front of it sometime if you get the chance... ;) :thu:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Phil's recommendations are valid regarding the extra primary transformer wires. The extra wires are for;

100 VAC
120 VAC
220 VAC
240 VAC

These different value windings/wires are to support any Country's AC voltage as we ship and support our kits World-wide.

Yes, select the wire that matches your Country AC voiltage and cut the rest back an inch or so, wrapping each of them in shrink-wrap or electrical tape. The color of each wire and it's AC volt application is defined in the manual ;^)

Yes it is. :) And the fact that the transformer is capable of working with the various line voltages of different countries is a excellent feature IMO, and I'm sure it makes things easier for Guytronix too - no worries about accidentally including the "wrong" transformer when shipping overseas.

Guytronix will put a line in the manual that describes what to do with the unused primary VAC wires. Thanks, Phil, for making the documentation bullet-proof :thu:

Well, to be fair, the documentation is already quite good. :) But I do feel that adding information about the extra transformer leads is a good idea that will avoid potential sail.. er, builder ;) confusion, and I'm happy to hear that you'll be including that in the next manual revision.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by titovanburen
is the armore loud enough to use in live situations with a rock band?

It would really depend on what you're looking for, the efficiency of the speaker(s) you'd be using, the style of music and how hard everyone else plays. I really don't think it would be appropriate for your needs if you need loud clean tones, but it might work with an AB switch as a lead amp, in conjunction with a higher powered amp for clean tones.

I'll be doing some measurements of SPL levels of both amps at various volume levels.

Also, if anyone's interested in being part of the "testing crew", please drop me an email with your contact info so we can try to get something scheduled.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Buckeyedog
which would you think would be a better "first build".....the Jr. or the Ardmore??

Thanks

They're actually pretty similar. The Ardmore's circuit board is a bit easier to build IMO, but not by much. As far as the tube wiring, the Gilmore Jr is the easier of the two - you only have two tubes to wire up, vs the three tubes in the Ardmore.

Personally, I'd base my decision more on your volume needs / tolerance (the Ardmore is louder) and your tonal preferences - the build difficulty is really not all that different between the two models. But if absolute ease of build is your first consideration, the Gilmore Jr is probably just the slightest bit easier to assemble overall.

[dsquared]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe


Personally, I'd base my decision more on your volume needs / tolerance (the Ardmore is louder) and your tonal preferences -

I might be getting a bit ahead of things, but I have to ask:

What exactly is the tonal difference between the two amps? Does one get dirtier/crunchier/smoother than the other? Or something else?

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by dsquared


I might be getting a bit ahead of things, but I have to ask:

What exactly is the tonal difference between the two amps? Does one get dirtier/crunchier/smoother than the other? Or something else?

I'd kind of like to save that for the group testing / listening sessions, and for the downloadable clips... :) ...but if you'd like to hear some examples, they've got clips of both over on the Guytronix site - Here's a link. (http://www.guytronix.com/pages/5/index.htm)

[Danocoustic]

Did you think I'd miss that little dig, Phil?

:mad:

;)

Talk about dumbass, though...I almost dropped my Gilmore, broke the ECC99 tube in the process. Good ol' Rich sent me another one right away :thu:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Did you think I'd miss that little dig, Phil?

:mad:

;)

All in good fun shipmate. ;) :D

Talk about dumbass, though...I almost dropped my Gilmore, broke the ECC99 tube in the process. Good ol' Rich sent me another one right away :thu:

And you're not even reviewing the products? ;) I'd say that's a good independent confirmation of Guytronix's excellent customer service, and it's certainly in line with my personal experiences when dealing with Rich. :cool:

[FWAxeIbanez]

I'm unsubscribing to this thread... the gas is killing me, and I'm not switching jobs (and therefore able to afford this) until around march... heh, maybe I'll just check in on this thread then, and maybe by then he'll have a tube installed :D

just kidding Phil, thanks so much... once finances are permitting, I think I'm gonna have a long hobby ahead of me, you should do this type of thread with the 7th circle (I think that's the brand) kits too.. .

[Danocoustic]

Why has this thread been forsaken?

:(

[The Toe Cutter]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Why has this thread been forsaken?

:(
I agree Dano! I've been wanting to build me one, but this thread has stagnated:cry:

[BigWood]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Why has this thread been forsaken?

:(


I was wondering the same....

:(

[Danocoustic]

The masses are revolting, Phil...

*waits for expected response*

[BigWood]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
The masses are revolting, Phil...

*waits for expected response*


*circles the wagons*


:mad:

[MrTrash]

...very revolting, for the most part! :p

Can't wait for Phil to drop another couple o' nuggets here for us to read. I'm wondering just good the clean tone of this thing is at studio/bedroom/neighbor-happy volumes. I suppose a lot of that would depend on the speaker and cabinet used, too, but those are easy things to remedy, right?

Love the pictures, btw!

[Phil O'Keefe]

Glad you like the pictures. :)

Actually, Phil has been dealing with some major PT issues, as well as a few other problems, and now that that's pretty much out of the way, we can continue. :)

We're pretty much done with most of the build related stuff, but I do want to do one or two more posts to wrap that up. However, the next step after that is to get about a half a dozen to a dozen people together for some taste tests / tryouts / clip recording sessions. So if you're interested in doing that - probably sometime in early / mid March, please drop me a PM and let me know. :)

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe
Glad you like the pictures. :)

Actually, Phil has been dealing with some major PT issues, as well as a few other problems, and now that that's pretty much out of the way, we can continue. :)

We're pretty much done with most of the build related stuff, but I do want to do one or two more posts to wrap that up. However, the next step after that is to get about a half a dozen to a dozen people together for some taste tests / tryouts / clip recording sessions. So if you're interested in doing that - probably sometime in early / mid March, please drop me a PM and let me know. :) It's been a week--- :mad:

Don't make me report you!

[The Toe Cutter]

Get crackin' you!:mad:

[BigWood]

I'm just here to watch the tumble weeds roll bye....


:wave:

:mad:

[Richard Guy]

Hey Guys,

In the mean-time, I'll dust off my Keyboard and answer any questions/fears/doubts ;) :freak:

[BigWood]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hey Guys,

In the mean-time, I'll dust off my Keyboard and answer any questions/fears/doubts ;) :freak:

I've already built a Gilmore Jr...I have no fears/doubts...although I am wondering about the "M" mod...

:wave:

[Richard Guy]

Hello BigWood,

Thanks for being my Customer ;) and thanks for your inquiry.

The 'M' mod adjust the gain of the amp. Here are the changes/values;

M Mod

C1 = .68uf (any voltage above 20) save the original C1 cap.

C5 = .002uf (400v or higher)

R6 = 100K

R10 = 470K

If your taste requires more crunch/overdrive, change the following;

C4 = .002uf (400v or higher)

Add = .68uf (20v or higher) across R8 (make them parallel)

Twiddle some more?
Leave in all of the above but change C1 back to the original value of 22uf/25v.

My personal favorite is the 'V' mod. It modifies the tone stack to mimic an old Vox AC4. With the 'V' mod, you will loose just a tad of overall volume due to insertion loss (normal). Here are those changes/values;

V Mod

--Add between V1 pin 6 (plate, turret #10) and the top lug (see below) on the tone pot either a .002uf Mallory 150 or a .002uf Orange Drop cap (closer to V1) followed by 470K resistor

--Change C2 to silver mica 47pf/500V

--Remove R5 (100K) and add a jumper where it was

--Change C4 to silver mica 220pf

--Add 330K resistor between top lug on the Volume pot and the bottom lug on Tone pot. I have the pots in the amp so that the lugs point to the right when looking from the inside, so there is a top, mid, and bottom

I like running the two Watt mod in my 'V' mod Gilmore Jr. It provides additional clean headroom.

We are soon releasing a mod that turns the Gilmore Jr into a tube overdrive to push a bigger wattage amp. It provides preamp/output tube and transformer saturation. It will be released in a sort of stomp box format thus keeping the build preserved for times when you use it for a stand-alone amp.
:freak:

[BigWood]

Thanks for the info Rich...your level of customer service is second to none.....take note people.....

:thu:


:)

[fishfartz]

wow -


cool thread guys and very nice of you both for the time and attention you are giving this "walkthrough". got me really wanting that jr!

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by fishfartz
wow -


cool thread guys and very nice of you both for the time and attention you are giving this "walkthrough". got me really wanting that jr!

It's a very cool little kit. :thu:

Now again, who's interested in coming in for some studio time with these puppies?

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe


It's a very cool little kit. :thu:

Now again, who's interested in coming in for some studio time with these puppies? Is Rich paying the travel/per diem?

;)

I'll volunteer some reviews, that's the best I can do---

[Phil O'Keefe]

We are soon releasing a mod that turns the Gilmore Jr into a tube overdrive to push a bigger wattage amp. It provides preamp/output tube and transformer saturation. It will be released in a sort of stomp box format thus keeping the build preserved for times when you use it for a stand-alone amp.

That sounds very interesting Rich. Please keep us posted. :)

[Richard Guy]

Phil,

I will be sending a unit for you and the guys to beat-up once I build one in a suitable box. I don't want Danocoustic to get too carried away once I send him tickets for a one-way Wooley Llama ride to your studio. :eek: :freak: ;) (Dano, if I could afford it, I'd send you First Class ;^)

I've got the current build in a less than sat enclosure for pre release testing purposes. It's now ready. Gary Gerhart designed the circuit. I am heavily twisting the eccentric modest arm of the reclusive tone wizard to sign the first five units (for a special personal intention), so please give me approx ~ two weeks to deliver.

There is also another box in development that allows the Ardmore Kit to be used in the same way.

Wait till you see what’s next :freak: :thu:

Your tone is our command.

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Phil,

I will be sending a unit for you and the guys to beat-up once I build one in a suitable box. I don't want Danocoustic to get too carried away once I send him tickets for a one-way Wooley Llama ride to your studio. :eek: :freak: ;) (Dano, if I could afford it, I'd send you First Class ;^)

I've got the current build in a less than sat enclosure for pre release testing purposes. It's now ready. Gary Gerhart designed the circuit. I am heavily twisting the eccentric modest arm of the reclusive tone wizard to sign the first five units (for a special personal intention), so please give me approx ~ two weeks to deliver.

There is also another box in development that allows the Ardmore Kit to be used in the same way.

Wait till you see what’s next :freak: :thu:

Your tone is our command. I wanna ride my llama
From Peru to Texarkana
I wanna ride him good
In my old neighborhood

:D

I'll have to have one of those, too, I guess...*sigh*...

Keep us posted!

[Richard Guy]

Hey Dano,

I love your blues ditty :thu:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hey Dano,

I love your blues ditty :thu: Credit to Neil Young, not DanO ;)

I met a man from Mars
He picked up all my guitars
And played travelling songs

When we got on ship
He brought out something for the trip
Said, "It's old but it's good"
Just like any other primitive would.....

:thu:

[Richard Guy]

Wow, do you think the man from Mars brought out an old Venutian hookah? :freak: Who was that masked Martian......where is he when you need him? ;)

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Wow, do you think the man from Mars brought out an old Venutian hookah? :freak: Who was that masked Martian......where is he when you need him? ;) He said it came from Uranus :eek:

[Richard Guy]

Oh my :eek: Now I know why my a## hurts :freak:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Oh my :eek: Now I know why my a## hurts :freak: Mine's chapped because PHIL NEEDS TO FINISH OFF THIS BUILD!!!

I will continue to post off-topic nonsense in here until he does.

*digs in heels*

:mad:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Mine's chapped because PHIL NEEDS TO FINISH OFF THIS BUILD!!!

I will continue to post off-topic nonsense in here until he does.

*digs in heels*

:mad: Well, THAT threat didn't work :(

[BigWood]

*stops bye to dust thread off*


:(

[Richard Guy]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Mine's chapped because PHIL NEEDS TO FINISH OFF THIS BUILD!!!

I will continue to post off-topic nonsense in here until he does.

*digs in heels*


-----------------------------------------------------------

Phil has finished building both amps
:thu: :freak: :thu:

[bucky]

I'll be interested in seeing how loud the Ardmore actually is when it's measured. It surprised me for only being 8 watts.

[Richard Guy]

It sounds way louder than 8 Watts since the design accents a very musical asymmetric output. No clones here! :thu: :freak: :thu: Congrats on your excellent building skills Bucky! Enjoy the amp!

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Originally posted by Danocoustic
Mine's chapped because PHIL NEEDS TO FINISH OFF THIS BUILD!!!

I will continue to post off-topic nonsense in here until he does.

*digs in heels*


-----------------------------------------------------------

Phil has finished building both amps
:thu: :freak: :thu: Couldn't prove it by me :mad:

[Richard Guy]

I think that Phil is waiting for folks to visit his studio to audition the Gilmore Jr and Ardmore amps before the review continues. The Konowa low-watt tube power amp will soon be released. I'll have to send that along too. Pretty soon, Phil will have all of my demo equipment :freak: ;)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yup, we need some volunteers. Dano, start hitchhiking... or I'm gonna have to start grabbing (non-forum member) guitarists at random... ;)

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe
Yup, we need some volunteers. Dano, start hitchhiking... or I'm gonna have to start grabbing (non-forum member) guitarists at random... ;) You ain't gettin' me back to Californee :mad:

[The Toe Cutter]

Can we get some good crunch outta these babies Richard?

[Richard Guy]

Hello Toe Cutter,

Thanks for your inquiry. Yes, the Gilmore Jr is crunchy. The Ardmore is crunchy too, but in a refind way......Phil, please post your assesment regarding the crunch of the two Kits

[Phil O'Keefe]

I'll try to do so in detail tonight... on the wife's computer at the moment... we're remodelling the house and my internet machine is "down" at the moment. I had to cobble something together just to post this. :(

Hopefully I'll be back tonight, or tomorrow at the latest. :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, let's try this again (had it all posted and then the PS on my internet computer died :mad: )...

Even though I have a couple more things to add to wrap up the construction, let's address some of the tonal questions for a minute...

The Gilmore Jr tends to crunch earlier and harder than the Ardmore, especially in its stock 1/2 watt configuration, and / or with the M Mod installed. When you add the 2 watt conversion kit (basically a tube socket adapter and a replacement tube - it takes all of 10 seconds to swap between the two if the amp is cold), then you gain a bit more clean headroom, and it doesn't break up as soon, but the basic tone stays similar to my ears. It's more of a Fender-esque vibe, or older (non-master) Marshall vibe - especially with the M Mod option installed.

Personally, I prefer the sound of the Gilmore Jr best with the V mod with the 2 watt mod installed. The V Mod adds more range and control effectiveness to the tone control, which in its stock form works fine, but has somewhat limited range. The V mod increases the effective range of the tone control and adds a bit more "chime" to the sound. It doesn't take you all the way into Voxville, but it hints at it a bit more.

The Ardmore will also crunch on its own and unassisted, but because it is an 8 watt, dual EL84 amp vs the stock Gilmore Jr's single 6n1p power tube and 1/2 watt rating, it has more clean headroom, and breaks up at higher volume levels. Bedroom jammers with noise sensitive neighbors and family members may be better served with the Gilmore Jr if maximum crunch at lower levels is important to them. However, the Ardmore is also an excellent sounding little amp in its own right, and making the decision on which one to hang on to is going to be pretty darned hard. :) The Gilmore Jr offers a bit more flexibility and options, so you can customize it a bit more to your preferences. But the Ardmore's chime and EL84 spank can not be denied. It's not a Vox, but if your tastes lean in that direction, then it's definitely the amp kit to get. Additionally, the stock tone circuit in the Ardmore has a bit more effective range than the stock Gilmore Jr's tone stack.

One thing that kind of surprised me was how well both of these amps take to pedals - they're both very "pedal friendly". For a cool aural treat, try running an HBE Germania or other treble booster type pedal into either one. You want "roar"? That will give it to you. :thu: Even slamming the front end with a Tube Screamer or other overdrive pedal works great. And sticking a cocked and locked wah in front of the Ardmore, along with the Germania got me the closest I've ever gotten to one of my all time favorite / "holy grail" tones - Paperback Writer. :cool:

Again, both amps will distort at the higher ranges of the volume controls without resorting to any pedals, but the Gilmore Jr does so more readily and with a bit more grit, grind and punch. The Ardmore is better suited to those who prefer an amp with a bit more "Brit flavor" and who want / need more clean headroom.

Of course, the guitar you use is an important part of the tonal equation, so I've played both amps with pretty much everything at my disposal, as well as a few client's guitars. So far, nothing I've plugged into either one has in any way shape or form "sucked", although if you want grit and distortion, humbuckers will give you more than single coils will. But my favorite with both amps is my Casino - it just sounds wonderful running P90's into either amp.

FWIW, I've had several clients play through these amps, and without exception, everyone was impressed with their sonics. The clips on the Guytonix website are good representations of their tone, but they really do sound even better in the room with you than they do on the clips.

Stay tuned for more... :wave:

[bucky]

Phil, what speakers have been your favourite so far with these amps?

[Phil O'Keefe]

I really don't have a super wide variety to choose from. I've got a couple of 12" Utah's in my '72 Twin, a 10" Eminence in my Super Champ, a 12" EV in my '83 Princeton II. The single amp mentioned in Batch 6 on this page is mine. :) (http://www.geocities.com/princerev2/howmany.html) I've also got a pair of Eminence 12" speakers in a "chopped" Fender amp cabinet. Those are the speakers that are always here, so they have had the most play time.

Additionally, there's always a bunch of different half stacks and so forth coming through here, and as I said, I've had several clients audition the Guytronix kits to seek their opinions... I had a buddy's Marshall 1960a (loaded with stock Celestion 75's) here on a long term loan (it's been returned to him now), and both heads sounded really good through that, although it favored the Ardmore a bit more IMO. The Gilmore Jr still sounded very good, and had some good bottom end chunk going on - and it's surprisingly loud if you don't stop to think about the "1 watt / 1 meter = X dB" efficiency ratings of typical speakers first... ;) If the speaker does 90 dB @ 1 watt / one meter, that's pretty loud. Loud enough that you don't want to be exposed to it for 8 hours straight. The Gilmore Jr is bound to surprise a few people with just how loud 1/2 watt can be.

Rich has suggestions on speakers, and unfortunately, I have not had a chance to try them. I believe he has a specific 16 ohm 10" Weber he likes, and IIRC, he's also fond of a 1X10" extension speaker cab from one of those little solid state Marshall mini stacks. I'm sure he'll be happy to share the details (I've got them in the studio and I'm answering this from home).

Me? I would still like to try the Ardmore through a Vox / Celestion Blue, or maybe a Eminence Red Fang or the Weber Blue Dog. But so far, of all the speakers and cabinets I have tried, I keep coming back to the 1X10" blue label Fender Eminence inside my Super Champ... I run a speaker cable from either head right to that speaker, in that little open back cab, and it just sounds great. :D (<-- Big grins when playing through gear is always a good thing! :thu: )

[Richard Guy]

Now that I've had more time to try different speakers, here is what sounds good to me;

12" Weber Blue Dog (16 ohms Gilmore Jr) light dope, 15 Watts

10" Celestion 'knock-off' used in the Marshall Micro Stack

2 x 8" Weber 8A125 and 8A125T

4 x 12 Marshall 1960A 75 watt speakers (Gilmore Jr)

4 x 12 Weber Blue Dogs (2) and Silver Bells (2) (Ardmore)

There are a lot of possibilities. I have not heard a speaker that did not sound 'good', its just that the above choices sounded a bit better to me than most others.

The Gilmore likes to 'see' 16 ohm loads and the Ardmore likes to 'see' 8 ohm loads. You can use 8 or 16 ohms with either, its just that they sound a tad better using the values mentioned.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
You ain't gettin' me back to Californee :mad:

Oh, don't make me call in the SP. ;) :D

Let's see, I still need to describe the final parts of the build, plus testing the B+ voltage, as well as doing the end caps. Have I forgotten anything else? Oh yeah... some clips. :)

I'm still rounding up volunteers for a day at the studio playing / recording these amps. Please send me a PM if you're interested!

I think I will write about the end caps right now, since I can do that from memory. :D

The kits each come with two wooden end caps that bolt to the sides of the metal heads / cases.. Other than the steel cases, that's the only "enclosure" that comes with them stock. And to be honest, while they don't provide any protection for the tubes, they will serve fine for general home use if you're going to leave the head sitting on top of a speaker cabinet or rack or whatever, but if you plan on taking it with you in your travels, then something a bit more substantial is definitely in order IMO.

The wood end caps are nicely grained, and pre-sanded. Do a little fine sanding if you feel it's needed, then finish them however you want. I used a nice light-honey colored stain. I applied several uniform coats, and once that was dry, I sprayed them with a couple of layers of clear coat to give them a little gloss and "shine". I'll try to get some photos of that uploaded soon.

Several builders have built the kits inside of a "donor amp" chassis. Obviously, I didn't go that route... but that's one possible cabinet "solution". I believe Guytronix has information on custom made cabinets for either kit. Since the external dimensions of the cabs are identical, a cab made for one kit model should fit the other just fine. If you're handy with woodworking and covering skills, you could put something together yourself with little problem. Check out the www.guytronix.com site for some ideas of what other users have built as far as enclosures / cabinets.

One suggestion though - if you are planning on building a custom head to house your Guytronix kit, make sure you leave enough room up top to allow for tube swaps as needed... and, if you're thinking about getting the 2 watt mod, for the extra height for the Gilmore Jr's tube socket adapter / 2 watt tube, which is definitely 'taller" than the stock 1/2 watt tube setup.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Dano, would you be willing to track some clips of yours and post them up here? If you need someone to host them, email them to me and I will toss them up on my server.

I'd like to get several players / amps / examples posted, so if anyone else has built one and wants to submit clips, they would definitely be welcomed. :wave:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Phil O'Keefe
Dano, would you be willing to track some clips of yours and post them up here? If you need someone to host them, email them to me and I will toss them up on my server.

I'd like to get several players / amps / examples posted, so if anyone else has built one and wants to submit clips, they would definitely be welcomed. :wave: Phil, I've got no recording equipment, and you're seeing the extent of my computer skills right here ;)

Not to mention that I'd be too embarrassed to let you all hear how poorly I play!

So far, I've only run my Gilmore through an old 2x12 cab I've got, and through the 4x10 cab in my Bassman combo. I've got a pair of the 8" Webers that Rich mentioned in his recent post, but I haven't used them yet; still got to build a cabinet for them, and a cab for the Gilmore itself. Got to wait for better weather, as I have to do all the machining outdoors. Such is life in Michigan, in the wintertime, in a single-wide trailer.

Once I've completed that, I can give my review.

And I ain't skeert o' no dang Shore Patrol :mad:

[Phil O'Keefe]

It's all good Dano. Thanks anyway.

[The Toe Cutter]

*chirp*

[danbomb]

I have a 16ohm red fang in a closed back cab and it loves my Gilmour Jr. I have the M mod on mine.

[1esotericguy]

Hey I just finished my first build of a Gilmore Jr. What a BLAST. I wanted a combo/head, so I built the kit components into a Valve Junior Chassis and then into the Valve Junior Cab. I also have the optional attenuator built into the chassis and I patch cable it in when I want it (knob up front). I can't beleive it all fit in a Valve Jr. A lot of fun.
I'm looking forward to hearing the results of this thread. I wanna know what other sounds people are getting. Mine is very 3-D sounding and warm. I also have a lot of headroom; maybe due to the v-mod? Who knows..I dig it. I only have a double humbucker Wolfgang right now, but I can't wait to try it with some single coils.

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by 1esotericguy
Hey I just finished my first build of a Gilmore Jr. What a BLAST. I wanted a combo/head, so I built the kit components into a Valve Junior Chassis and then into the Valve Junior Cab. I also have the optional attenuator built into the chassis and I patch cable it in when I want it (knob up front). I can't beleive it all fit in a Valve Jr. A lot of fun.
I'm looking forward to hearing the results of this thread. I wanna know what other sounds people are getting. Mine is very 3-D sounding and warm. I also have a lot of headroom; maybe due to the v-mod? Who knows..I dig it. I only have a double humbucker Wolfgang right now, but I can't wait to try it with some single coils. Sounds like a cool way to do it :cool:

The V-mod definitely widens the tone's range, and I did the 2-watt mod to get more clean headroom before breakup.

Wait 'til you run a Tele through it :love:

[1esotericguy]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Sounds like a cool way to do it :cool:

Wait 'til you run a Tele through it :love:

PLEASE, no more gas. I just bought a Verbzilla reverb that now lives with the amp. Next is going to be an extension cab. And my Wolfgang is particularly noisy, so maybe a gate or Decimator. MORE STUFF MORE STUFF. I wish I could move all my GAS energy into practice energy :D

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by danbomb
I have a 16ohm red fang in a closed back cab and it loves my Gilmour Jr. I have the M mod on mine.

Clip please? :)

[danbomb]

I am not really set up for recording.

[1esotericguy]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
Sounds like a cool way to do it :cool:

The V-mod definitely widens the tone's range, and I did the 2-watt mod to get more clean headroom before breakup.

Wait 'til you run a Tele through it :love:

So I ended up borrowing a really nice USA STRAT (and subsequently buying a cheap one) and you weren't kidding. Single coils are my hero through this amp. Warm and jangle-y. It's like a "Little Wing" music box.

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by 1esotericguy


So I ended up borrowing a really nice USA STRAT (and subsequently buying a cheap one) and you weren't kidding. Single coils are my hero through this amp. Warm and jangle-y. It's like a "Little Wing" music box. See, I tol' ya :cool:

I like the way the Gilmore breaks up when you push it, but I like its clean tones more. That's why I put the 2-watt mod into it. More clean headroom, more volume before it gets dirty.

I recommend it.

[Phil O'Keefe]

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/036.jpg

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, so once you have everything into the amp chassis, you should go back through it and double check everything. Make sure all your wires are going where they should be going, while referencing the wiring chart that is included with the kit. Check for cold solder joints (dull looking greyish solder, as opposed to bright shiny solder joints) and anything that looks amiss or sloppy and fix it now before going any further.

Once that's done, it's time for the B+ voltage check. You don't need an O-Scope to build and bias these amps, but now that it's all internally assembled, you do need to check the voltage before giving the amp a play test.

A few words of caution are in order here -

When checking the B+ voltage, you must do so with the tubes OUT OF the amp.

You will be testing a "hot" chassis. In other words, you'll be plugging the amp in to the wall AC socket, and there are gong to be high voltages present. You MUST be careful or you can get seriously hurt or dead. I can't stress this enough. Use caution whenever working inside a "hot" amp.

The manuals tell you which turret to use to test the voltage - on the Gilmore Jr, it's turret 19. Set your multimeter to the highest DC voltage setting, and connect the black lead of your multimeter to a ground point, such as one of the star grounds on the chassis. I like to do this in a way that doesn't require a hand to hold it in place... an alligator clip equipped jumper cable can work to connect the black meter probe to the chassis ground. That way, you only need one hand on the red test proble from your meter to touch the probe to the proper turret. Whenever possible, I like having one hand only in use when testing a hot circuit - it's safer in the event you do get shocked, because if you have both hands inside there, the current will go right through your heart - not good. :(

Anyway, this is the most dangerous part of the build, but it's not all that difficult to do, and it's completely safe as long as you use appropriate caution.

Power up the amp (again, with the tubes removed) and check the voltage. The voltage should read between 300 and 350 VDC on your meter. If it reads higher or lower, or if you smell smoke or see sparks or anything like that, immediately power down and unplug the amp and recheck your work. If it is within the correct voltage range, power down, put the lid on the case and install the tubes.

You're not ready to play quite yet, but at this point it is CRUCIAL that you have a speaker load attached to the amp. These amps, as we've previously discussed, can work fine with anything from a 4 ohm to 16 ohm load. Attach a speaker to the speaker jack and dim the lights in the room and repower the amp. Look at the tubes - the filaments should glow red, but the metal plates should not. If the plates are glowing, power down and recheck your work.

REMEMBER THOUGH - an amp's capacitors can store a charge even after it's unplugged - enough to give you a nasty bite. Leaving the speaker attached after you unplug the AC power and leaving it sit at least overnight should drain the caps and make it safe to work on the amp again the next day... of course, you can always manually bleed the caps, but if you have to ask how, you probably shouldn't go there. ;)

Assuming the filaments are the only thing glowing and not the tube plates (a general bluish glow is normal and okay), then you get to the fun part - plug in a cable and give her a play test. Set the standby switch to standby, and power up the amp with the power switch. Give it a few minutes to warm up, then flip the standby switch to the on position and see if she plays. If you did everything correctly, it should.

Okay, that should cover the last of the build. It was actually pretty easy to build these kits, and the instructions are generally very good to excellent. And if you have a problem or question, Rich is about as good on customer support and help as any company I've seen - and much better than most. :thu:

I'm going to ask again for volunteers to help me test / record clips for these amps... I don't know that we will be able to get a ton of people together all at once due to everyone's schedules, but if one or two people want to do so individualy, we can go that route. And if I can't get any volunteers, then you'll all have to suffer through MY playing on the clips, and I'm not sure you want to have to experience that, so SPEAK UP and volunteer to come check these puppies out in person. Please. :)

We'll wrap up with my general comments and impressions regarding their sound very soon. :wave:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Danocoustic
See, I tol' ya :cool:

I like the way the Gilmore breaks up when you push it, but I like its clean tones more. That's why I put the 2-watt mod into it. More clean headroom, more volume before it gets dirty.

I recommend it.

I agree Dano - I personally prefer the 2 watt mod. The amp still breaks up, but a bit later / higher on the volume knob. But it's really going to depend on personal preferences. Someone who is looking for maximum grindage at minimal volume levels might not like the 2 watt mod as much as you or I do... but the fact that there are options, and the amps can be built with modifications that meet the individual player's needs and preferences is a major point in their favor IMO.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by danbomb
I am not really set up for recording.

Thanks anyway. :)

[BigWood]

Just got done installing the 'M' mod on my Gilmore jr....amp breaks up a lot sooner but cleans up nicely when ya back off the guitars volume knob..I'm pushing it threw a single Celestion G12T (16 ohm)....amp has a real nice 'british flavor now... I'm really impressed on how easy it is to mod this amp to suit ones taste...

:)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, it looks like we have a couple of volunteers for a visit / play session. :thu: I'll post the date in a bit, just as soon as we get it confirmed. Anyone else who wishes to attend on that date (mid-May or late May) will of course be welcome to come over too. :)

[Richard Guy]

Phil,

Thanks for the news. There is a chance that I'll have the Gilmore Jr Instrument Out box ready for your date, a date in later May would be ideal as it will provide more time for me. The box turns the Gilmore Jr into an overdrive unit to push the front-end of a larger wattage amp. It features Gilmore Jr preamp and output tube/transformer saturation with a level control. No sand. I've used it with my Sunset head pushing two AlNiCo 12's, semi-closed cab, way cool. We are also thinking of having a variation that will work with Fender Champs and other low wattage amps. :thu: :freak: :thu:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Cool Richard - we'll shoot for later in the month then. Thanks for letting us know. :cool:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Phil,

Thanks for the news. There is a chance that I'll have the Gilmore Jr Instrument Out box ready for your date, a date in later May would be ideal as it will provide more time for me. The box turns the Gilmore Jr into an overdrive unit to push the front-end of a larger wattage amp. It features Gilmore Jr preamp and output tube/transformer saturation with a level control. No sand. I've used it with my Sunset head pushing two AlNiCo 12's, semi-closed cab, way cool. We are also thinking of having a variation that will work with Fender Champs and other low wattage amps. :thu: :freak: :thu: So this will be an add-on to an existing Gilmore Jr., Rich?

You KNOW I gotta know more about this!

:thu:

[Richard Guy]

Hello Danocoustic,

Thanks for your inquiry. Yes, you are correct sir! Currently (phase I) the box connects directly into the Gilmore Jr speaker out jack. From there it connects directly into the input jack of your Marshall Major or SVT ;^) It has a level control on it. All you do is crank the volume and set the tone control of the Gilmore Jr and use it as an overdrive into larger wattage amps. It has an interesting passive ladder network inside designed by the reclusive tone guru, Gary Gerhart, that keeps the tone/vibe of the cranked Gilmore Jr at the ready :cool: It works extremely well with the "M" mod installed in the Gilmore Jr.

Phase II will feature a 'stomp' switch that will provide for switching the box in and out of circuit so that you can set the larger wattage amp 'clean' and switch between the two as your guitar plugs directly into the Gilmore Jr. The switching is true by-pass and will sport an LED that will require battery power for LED operation only. There will also be a tone control on the Phase II box. :freak:

Phase III will provide the same operation/feature but will work with Fender Champ variations to also include Narrow Panel 5E1 / 5F1 circuits :freak: :freak:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hello Danocoustic,

Thanks for your inquiry. Yes, you are correct sir! Currently (phase I) the box connects directly into the Gilmore Jr speaker out jack. From there it connects directly into the input jack of your Marshall Major or SVT ;^) It has a level control on it. All you do is crank the volume and set the tone control of the Gilmore Jr and use it as an overdrive into larger wattage amps. It has an interesting passive ladder network inside designed by the reclusive tone guru, Gary Gerhart, that keeps the tone/vibe of the cranked Gilmore Jr at the ready :cool: It works extremely well with the "M" mod installed in the Gilmore Jr.

Phase II will feature a 'stomp' switch that will provide for switching the box in and out of circuit so that you can set the larger wattage amp 'clean' and switch between the two as your guitar plugs directly into the Gilmore Jr. The switching is true by-pass and will sport an LED that will require battery power for LED operation only. There will also be a tone control on the Phase II box. :freak:

Phase III will provide the same operation/feature but will work with Fender Champ variations to also include Narrow Panel 5E1 / 5F1 circuits :freak: :freak: Marshall?

SVT :confused:

Look man---can I plug it into my 70s silverface Bassman 4x10 combo or what?

*dang tech-talkin' weenies*

:mad:

[Richard Guy]

Absolutely, no worries :freak: :thu:

[Danocoustic]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Absolutely, no worries :freak: :thu: Thanks, Rich ;)

You say it works well with the M mod. If you recall, I've installed the V mod in mine.
Are the two mods mutually exclusive? What effect from the 2-watt mod?

I'm really interested in this. Please keep us up to date.

Oh, and I plugged you on the new DIY forum :thu:

Thanks again!

[Phil O'Keefe]

The new DIY forum would have been perfect for a review like this, but since it didn't exist when we got started on it, I'm going to keep it up here. But I did post a link over there to this Pro Review, in case anyone's interested. :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Dan, as to the M Mod / V Mod, it's best to use one or the other in your Gilmore Jr. As to how the new product works with the V Mod, I have no idea, but since the V Mod is a tone control thing, I don't think it should pose a problem, although the crunch factor is greater with the M Mod... but again, I do not know for certain - Rich?

[Richard Guy]

Regarding the 'V' and 'M' mods, Phil is correct, the 'M' mod changes the gain of the Gilmore Jr Kit and the 'V' mod changes the tone stack. Just for info, the 2 x EL84 Ardmore Kit features the 'V' mod stock.

The 'V' and 'M' mods sound better when installed alone. The Instrument Out Box works well with Stock, V or M modded Gilmore Jrs. Since the 'M' mod povides more gain, it gives the Instrument Out Box a stronger sounding signal to push the front end of your larger wattage amp.

Thanks for asking ;) :freak: ;)

[paulskirocks]

why not wire it so you could have both mods, and be able to take either in or out of the circuit? a rotor wafer type switch? or toggles? can't wait to try out one of these...

paulski

[Phil O'Keefe]

Paul, I imagine you could work something like that up, but I'd have to look at it closely to design something like that - which is beyond the scope of this Pro Review... but I will say that if you're an experienced amp builder / modder, either of these amps would serve well as a basic platform to work from.

[Richard Guy]

One of my Customers installed a bunch of toggle switches on his Gilmore Jr to switch in and out the various components from stock to 'V', 'M' and bright mod components. It provided for interesting combinations. You can see his build on my 'Builder's Pictures' area on my site.

[FWAxeIbanez]

Originally posted by paulskirocks
why not wire it so you could have both mods, and be able to take either in or out of the circuit? a rotor wafer type switch? or toggles? can't wait to try out one of these...

paulski


*drool*

Richard... any help with this?

[Richard Guy]

Hello FWAxeIbanez,

The Customer took each changed part in the 'M' and 'V' mod instructions and mounted them on a terminal strip. He then used DPST switches to either retain 'stock' or toggle in the changed values. I think I have some additional pics here somewhere that I can send you. Please email me at support@guytronix.com as I will reply with whatever I find on the matter.

[UstadKhanAli]

Hey Phil, you available for checking out amps and mics on the 27th or 28th?

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, it's a "go" for the 27th of this month. If anyone else would like to attend and try these cool little amps out in person, please drop me an email or PM. :wave:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Anyone? Class? Bueller? ;)

This Saturday at my place in Riverside for the play test / recording. If you're interested, please send me a PM. :)

[UstadKhanAli]

So we hung out yesterday at Phil's place. The Gilmore and Ardmore really cost very little, but still sound awesome.

The Gilmore breaks up a little more, very useful for a lot of things, including getting some rockin' distortion at low volumes. A Gretsch through the unit yielded some instant "Won't Get Fooled Again" sort of distortion. Nice!

The Ardmore was my personal favorite although quite frankly, they're both very good. It had nice glassy highs and a little more headroom. Beautiful tone.

We fired up a Carr Rambler right next to them, just for fun, not so much for comparison, but just for fun. That amp is great, and everything sounds great through it.

The other two are a freakin' bargain. Paulskirocks was really impressed with both of them. We were really impressed when Phil put numerous guitars through the Diamond delay and then through both amps in 'stereo'.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Also for fun, we fired up the Soundelux 251, The Soundelux 250, and the Lawson L251.

The first thing that we noticed was that the Lawson had 6 dB lower output in cardioid when compared to the Soundelux (it was I think 3 dB lower for figure-8 and omni, if memory serves).

Similar. Remarkably similar, in fact. The Soundelux had a more pronounced top end, that beautiful top end that these mics are known for. Whether that's better or worse is subjective. The mids and bottom end seemed very close in comparison.

When the Lawson L251 was in cardioid, it sounded virtually identical to the Soundelux 250. Eerily similar.

When the Soundelux 251 and the Lawson L251 were in figure-8, they sounded almost identical, including the top end, the main difference being that the Lawson L251 was roughly 3 dB lower in output.

Clearly, each mic has their merits. The Lawson has infinitely variable polar patterns, making it rather flexible. Paulskirocks described it as being "smoother" sounding than the 251 when both were in cardioid.

The Soundelux 251 has a gorgeous, more pronounced top end. The Lawson can be juiced to do this by sending it back to Gene Lawson if you so want it. I'll probably leave it just as is, but it's always good to know.

The Soundelux 250 has less top end than the Soundelux 251, and can be good for many applications where accentuating the top end could be an issue. The 250 is a fixed cardioid (no other polar patterns), so that may be an issue to some, although it may be a moot point for many since it's been discontinued, according to Phil.

I want to emphasize that this comparison was not even close to being scientific.

Very fun overall, hanging out, blabbing, playing, listening to CDs and the above, etc.

Thank you very much to Phil for hosting this and for his warm hospitality, and Paulskirocks for coming out and hanging out!

[papamaverick]

Glad to hear it was fun - if I weren't on the other side of the country (in Florida) I definately would've come to hang out.

I'm trying to figure out exactly how loud a 1/2 watt amp and 8 watt amp are. I live in an apartment, and even though my Deluxe Reverb is only 18 watts, it's too loud on anything past volume 2-3.

If my memory (and math) serves me correctly, doubling the wattage for a given speaker/cab adds 3dB, and it takes about 10dB for the human ear to subjectively judge a volume as "2x as loud".

Which pretty much means that an 8 watt amp (assuming I run it through my Deluxe speakers) would only be about 3dB less loud. Wow. And the 1/2 watt would be maybe 1/3 as loud (15dB less).

Does this sound right to you guys?

And Phil, which amp did you decide to keep?

[Richard Guy]

Hello papamaverick

Here is a handy 'ball-park' list that you might like. Info thanks to amptone.com

40 watts is 94% as loud as 50 watts.
30 watts is 86% as loud as 50 watts.
25 watts is 81% as loud as 50 watts.
22 watts is 78% as loud as 50 watts.
20 watts is 76% as loud as 50 watts.
18 watts is 74% as loud as 50 watts.
15 watts is 70% as loud as 50 watts.
12 watts is 65% as loud as 50 watts.
10 watts is 62% as loud as 50 watts.
9 watts is 60% as loud as 50 watts.
8 watts is 56% as loud as 50 watts.
7 watts is 55% as loud as 50 watts.
6 watts is 53% as loud as 50 watts.
5 watts is 50% as loud as 50 watts.
4 watts is 47% as loud as 50 watts.
3 watts is 43% as loud as 50 watts.
2 watts is 38% as loud as 50 watts.
1 watt is 31% as loud as 50 watts.
3/4 watt is 28% as loud as 50 watts.
1/2 watt is 25% as loud as 50 watts.
1/4 watt is 20% as loud as 50 watts.
1/10 watt is 15% as loud as 50 watts.
50mW is 13% as loud as 50 watts
20mW is 10% as loud as 50 watts.
10mW is 8% as loud as 50 watts.
5mW is 6% as loud as 50 watts.
1mW is 4% as loud as 50 watts.
0.5mW is 3% as loud as 50 watts.
0.1mW is 2% as loud as 50 watts.
50uW is 1.6% as loud as 50 watts.
10uW is 1% as loud as 50 watts.

[paulskirocks]

well... i'm finally back in town... we had a good time hanging out, as well as getting to sample the amps... i also lean towards the ardmore, although it is a tough decision... i suppose we should have recorded some samples, but , oh well...

i just had fun, and appreciate phil for having us over and letting me noodle away on the amps and his different guitars... it was also fun listening to phil and ken talk shop while i sit and try to decipher!

bottom line for the amps is the tone was great, regardless of the price...

[Phil O'Keefe]

I really enjoyed Ken and Paul's visit. :thu: We had a good time, and both of them seemed to be pretty impressed with the Guytronix amp kits, as am I. :)

Unfortunately, we didn't record any clips, so that's going to fall on me to do... I have ordered a 16 Ohm Weber Blue Dog Alnico speaker and it should be here on Monday. I'm going to wait until that arrives so I have another speaker option to use, and then do some clips, take a few more pictures and (finally!) write up my conclusions.

Stay tuned... :)

[Richard Guy]

Hello Phil,

How does that 16 ohm AlNiCo Blue Dog sound to you? What wattage did you select and did you get it doped? Did you put it in a closed back or open back cab? I prefer open back cabs for AlNiCo. :freak: :thu:

[percyexpat]

i feel that this thread needs a bit of a nudge.

[Richard Guy]

Originally posted by percyexpat
i feel that this thread needs a bit of a nudge.

Thanks Percyexpat, I agree :freak: :thu:

[percyexpat]

Originally posted by Richard Guy


Thanks Percyexpat, I agree :freak: :thu:

well, having bumped it, its now on the pro reviews forum, exposed in all its glory! id love to hear some sound clips though. and some discussion on the effect of different cabs on the sound. im thinking of getting the gilmore jr. to put together over christmas when im at home (my dad is is much better at these things than me!)

[Richard Guy]

Hello percyexpat,

I'd be most happy supporting your build efforts. I've got some sound clips of the Gilmore Jr on my site www.guytronix.com Thanks for the bump :thu: :freak:

[Brendan]

Hi Rich,

The 2 watt Gilmore Jr. sounds VERY interesting. Are there any mods to squeeze more clean headroom out of one?

[Richard Guy]

Originally posted by Brendan
Hi Rich,

The 2 watt Gilmore Jr. sounds VERY interesting. Are there any mods to squeeze more clean headroom out of one?

Hello Brendan,

Thanks for your inquiry. The two watt Gilmore Jr was specifically created to support more clean headroom. The perceived overall volume from 1/2 watt to 2 watts is a nominal ~ 12 % so there isn't a big jump in volume going to the 2 watts but there is more overall clean available. It sounds especially sweet with the 'V' mod installed along with the two watt.

The Ardmore has lots of clean and sparkle while providing more volume.

:thu: :freak: :thu:

[1esotericguy]

Hey - I'll pull this if it's not the right place to put it. Seems appropriate though:

Finally got a new camera so I'm posting pics of an amp project from 8 months ago. 1st time build and it was fun.

I assembled a GILMORE JR kit into a Epiphone Valve Jr Chassis and then shoved the chassis back into the combo. Replaced the speaker too. Wiring is pretty embarrassing, but it's actually quiet and sounds really rich (even though it's pretty sloppy in there). The chassis is a little tight for this kit, especially with the attenuator mod installed on board.

The front panel layout is: ATTENUATOR, VOLUME, TONE, STANDBY TOGGLE, ON/OFF TOGGLE.

These days I use it as a head into a Greenback in a separate cab and I'm going to get the 2 watt upgrade. BOOYAH - Enjoy pics.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/1esotericguy/IMG_0144.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/1esotericguy/IMG_0169.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n17/1esotericguy/IMG_0149.jpg

[Richard Guy]

Hey 1esotericguy,

Great packaging! Dig! :thu: :freak: :thu:

[Phil O'Keefe]

Indeed - very nicely put together! :thu:

I'm horrible at clips; mostly because I'm really only a marginal player... so I tend to use things in context of songs instead of solo'ed out. Here's a link to a song we used the Ardmore on a bit:

http://www.myspace.com/theralphshow

The song is called "The Road That Leads To You". The baritone guitar solo was recorded using a Vox AC15 with a Weber Blue Dog and the Ardmore through a Fender EV 12F speaker, in stereo, using a Lovetone Wobulator tremolo pedal to split the signl between the two amplifiers.... I was very happy with the results.

More to come... :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Originally posted by Richard Guy
Hello Phil,

How does that 16 ohm AlNiCo Blue Dog sound to you? What wattage did you select and did you get it doped? Did you put it in a closed back or open back cab? I prefer open back cabs for AlNiCo. :freak: :thu:

It's a 15W, no dope. I put it into my Vox AC15, but I've used it with the Ardmore a few times too - just by leaving it in the open backed Vox cabinet and running a speaker cable jumper and coupler to the Ardmore. It sounds very good with the Ardmore... gives it even more of a Vox-ish voice.

Gotta try it with the Gilmore Jr still, but I bet it will sound sweet with that too. :)

[Phil O'Keefe]

Okay, I have three songs that we used the Ardmore and Gilmore Jr on for all the guitar tracks.

http://www.myspace.com/theamericanillness

I used the same basic setup on all thee songs:

Gilmore Jr (w/ 2 watt mod) -> Weber Blue Dog with a Audio Technica ATM650 mic (on axis), into a Vintech Dual 72.

Ardmore -> EV 12F, with a Audix D2 mic (off axis), into a Vintech Dual 72.

Both mics were nearly at contact distance from the speaker cabinet grilles - maybe one inch away. Additionally, I also had a single Soundelux ELUX 251 set up as a distant mic, about 8' back from the two amps and centered between them, set on cardioid, and running into a Yamaha i88X preamp. I printed three tracks to disk with each "pass" on guitar. Each song has between two and four seperate guitar parts / performances; for a total of 6 - 12 guitar "tracks".

I ran my pedalboards in front of the amps. All tracks used a touch of Demeter Compulator, and a little bit of Danelectro Fish & Chips EQ. Overdrive was a combo affair - part amp breakup, part pedals. The OD pedal varied from track to track, but most of them are with a MAD DD30, as much to "goose" the front end of the amp as for its own overdrive "sound". One or two used a Lovetone Brown Source instead. A very small touch of Diamond Memory Lane delay and Lovetone Wobulator panning was used, but mostly to "stereo-ize" the guitars instead of as an obvious delay / slapback or panning "effect".

Guitars varied - either my late 90's Epi Les Paul limited Edition, 2001 Epiphone Casino, '94 Fender Telecaster Special or my Rickenbacker 610. Most of it is the Les Paul though.

All songs and performances were done by The American Illness, but I was the one responsible for dialing up the guitar tones. They were very happy with the sound we got though, and really liked the amps.

I'll try to get some pics of the setup posted as soon as I can get them loaded onto my server. :wave:

[Adjoha66]

http://bestdanitykane.info/movies/1

[dtm_992]

Originally posted by Adjoha66
http://bestdanitykane.info/movies/1

:confused:

Whatever. I'm guessing TS is gonna keep the gilmour? :thu:

[timrocker]

Really like all the tracks posted! :thu:

[tonsotubetone]

Hi, this is my first post. I just bought an Ardmore amp used, already assembled, I brought it home and plugged it in, cranked it to 10 and proceeded to wail with my Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy ( humbuckers ) and boy does it sound sweet! But, since I got it used, I'm wondering what the speaker load should be, I was using an 8 ohm box, is that correct?

[Richard Guy]

Hi, this is my first post. I just bought an Ardmore amp used, already assembled, I brought it home and plugged it in, cranked it to 10 and proceeded to wail with my Carvin Holdsworth Fatboy ( humbuckers ) and boy does it sound sweet! But, since I got it used, I'm wondering what the speaker load should be, I was using an 8 ohm box, is that correct?


You are correct Sir! It will also work with 4 or 16 ohm loads but 8 is ideal. Enjoy :thu: :freak: :thu:

[tonsotubetone]

Thanks! I'm really amazed at the way this amp responds, it seems to have a musical kind of feedback at almost any note. It makes me feel like frickin' Hendrix. Way cool!! Thanks for coming up with such a cool sounding, affordable amp.

[tonsotubetone]

Richard, From looking at your website, it seems as though there are no mods for the Ardmore, is that right? But, you have quite a few for the Gilmore, why is that? t'ott

[Richard Guy]

Richard, From looking at your website, it seems as though there are no mods for the Ardmore, is that right? But, you have quite a few for the Gilmore, why is that? t'ott

tonsotubetone,

Thanks for your inquiry. The Ardmore's heart is voiced in Vox-land. It is bright and full of chime. Think Beatles/Byrds/Petty. So far, folks have like the amp as is. It really wouldn't sound good installing a 'M' mod, it would ruin the vibe. The Gilmore Jr's 'V' mod is pretty much the same tone stack that is in the Ardmore. The Gilmore, who's heart is voiced early Fender Tweed, lends itself tone-wise to various mods due to its design. Early Marshalls were very similar to Leo's Bassman at that time ;)

[self]

please forgive me for asking a question that has, perhaps been addressed already...

can the gilmore put out sufficiently loud clean tones for recording purposes (say, like the cleaner guitars in "sultans of swing")?.

thanks,
jai shankar.

[Richard Guy]

please forgive me for asking a question that has, perhaps been addressed already...

can the gilmore put out sufficiently loud clean tones for recording purposes (say, like the cleaner guitars in "sultans of swing")?.

thanks,
jai shankar.

The Gilmore Jr can sound clean as you mention but mic placement and speaker(s) are important too. It will begin to 'break-up' at around 2 PM on the volume control. If you want to go above the Gilmore Jr's clean, the Ardmore is the way to go. Way clean and a lot of chime. If MK's tone with DS is your quest, plug your Strat into the Ardmore with a nice 8 ohm load. The Gilmore Jr likes to 'see' 16 ohm loads. Either amps will work fine at 8 or 16 but each has it's own magic with the proper load.

[edeibler2000]

The Gilmore Jr can sound clean as you mention but mic placement and speaker(s) are important too. It will begin to 'break-up' at around 2 PM on the volume control. If you want to go above the Gilmore Jr's clean, the Ardmore is the way to go. Way clean and a lot of chime. If MK's tone with DS is your quest, plug your Strat into the Ardmore with a nice 8 ohm load. The Gilmore Jr likes to 'see' 16 ohm loads. Either amps will work fine at 8 or 16 but each has it's own magic with the proper load.


Care to make any specific speaker recommendations? Thanks.

[Richard Guy]

[QUOTE=edeibler2000;22521200]Care to make any specific speaker recommendations? Thanks.[/QUOTE

Thanks for asking

I like the Weber 16 ohm 12" Blue Dog, Ceramic Magnet, 16 ohms, lite dope, pre-broken-in for the Gilmore Jr.

For the Ardmore, I like an 8 ohm Celestion G-1265 or Weber's 'knock-off' 1265 at 8 ohms for the Ardmore.

Please note that there are a lot of very nice sounding speakers out there. The 'key' is running 16 ohm loads with the Gilmore Jr and 8 ohm loads for the Ardmore.

[davetoepfer]

One of my Customers installed a bunch of toggle switches on his Gilmore Jr to switch in and out the various components from stock to 'V', 'M' and bright mod components. It provided for interesting combinations. You can see his build on my 'Builder's Pictures' area on my site.

If I were to do it, relays are the answer.

[Richard Guy]

If I were to do it, relays are the answer.

It would take many relays or switches to pull it off with both mods installed in one amp. Each mod has ~ 6 components (I believe the 'V' mod has five) One mod is specific to the gain stages in the amp ('M') while the other is specific to the tone stack ('V'). The 'M' mod would be the easiest to switch in or out since it directly replaces existing stock values. The 'V' mod is a bit more involved/tricky due to re-routing the design of the stock tone stack as well as direct component value changes. ;)

[Guitdolin]

Man, great thread - at first. I wish some recordings would have panned out, especially after a planned get-together at a studio. Oh well.... Anybody else have any recordings using the Gilmore Jr.?

I recently bought one used. I imagine that I'll be buying a kit to build myself eventually as well. I'd love to have one at my office as well as at home.

One more speaker question for you, Richard.... The Blue Dog is part of the British Series. For a more "Fender Tweed" sound, what speaker(s) are the ticket? Thanks, and I look forward to becoming a customer of yours as well. :)

[Richard Guy]

Hello Guitolin,

Weber's 12A125-O would be a nice choice for what you are describing. 16 ohms is the ticket ;^)

[Guitdolin]

Thanks, Rich. I really appreciate your help.

Shane

[mikesr1963]

:cool:

[Guitdolin]

I just got my amp today and got to fire it up this evening. TONE!!! This is definitely a keeper.

Rich, after listening more to the sound samples on your site and speaker manufacturers' sound samples more, I decided I liked the Celestion V30 instead of the Jensens. I got a clone to try first, and it sounds really good (without a cabinet). I plan to build a speaker cab and an amp head cab, but I couldn't resist soldering a cable onto the speaker and plugging it in. :)

The comments about surprising amounts of volume, even at 1/2 watt, are true. Not deafening by any stretch, but too loud to crank while the Mrs. is trying to sleep. I am wondering about recording levels through a mic too.

Rich, do you have a master volume or attenuator mod/kit available? I may put something like that in the amp cab. Has anyone else done that?

Thanks,

Shane

[Richard Guy]

I just got my amp today and got to fire it up this evening. TONE!!! This is definitely a keeper.

Rich, after listening more to the sound samples on your site and speaker manufacturers' sound samples more, I decided I liked the Celestion V30 instead of the Jensens. I got a clone to try first, and it sounds really good (without a cabinet). I plan to build a speaker cab and an amp head cab, but I couldn't resist soldering a cable onto the speaker and plugging it in. :)

The comments about surprising amounts of volume, even at 1/2 watt, are true. Not deafening by any stretch, but too loud to crank while the Mrs. is trying to sleep. I am wondering about recording levels through a mic too.

Rich, do you have a master volume or attenuator mod/kit available? I may put something like that in the amp cab. Has anyone else done that?

Thanks,

Shane

Hello Shane,

The Gilmoe Jr records 'BIG'. An SM-57 is all you need to capture a huge sound. Gary Gerhart designed the Gilmore to be one excellent recording amp. The Gilmore Jr is a sub-set of the Gilmore Amp and uses the same transformers and stock output tube. I am currently looking for another source for rheostats (attenuation) since the price from my typical supplier has gone through the roof. Please check my site once in a while for acivity. Enjoy your tone ;^)

[Mer2112]

Hi Phil,

I know this is old but can you please re-host the pictures?

They're not showing up.

Thanks

So you make your amp kit order, and a few days later the box shows up via Prioity Mail - I was actually impressed with how fast that was. :)

Opening the box reveals an expert packing job. Everything is set in the box in an organized manner, and individual elements of the kit are wrapped seperately.

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/001.jpg

Pulling everything out of the bubblewrap and packing paper reveals this:

http://www.philokeefe.com/20050929/004.jpg

Again, you'll notice that everything is well organized. One example - polarized parts such as diodes and polarized capacitors are placed into a seperate bag - which is handy for old hands and new builders alike, since these parts require special attention to their orientation when they're being installed.

[H.R. Shove and Stuff]

Oh man, I forgot to post my build in here :D

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg114/mth5044/P1010057.jpg

And with the guitar god charms.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg114/mth5044/P1010075.jpg

yay!

[Richard Guy]

hello mth,

why not stain the provided oak end caps the color of your nicely built cabinet?

[Mer2112]

Phil,

Any chance you could re-post these photos?

Thanks



Hi Phil,

I know this is old but can you please re-host the pictures?

They're not showing up.

Thanks

[Phil O'Keefe]

All my website stuff is being redone right now, and I'll try to find links, but I can't make any promises. :( There is one "gut shot" pic that I took up on the Guytronix site:

http://www.guytronix.com/images/480_Phil_s_Gilmore.jpg

[Mer2112]

Thanks Phil,

Eric

[yoyodunno]

I can't wait to get one of these things.

[woolie]

I know this was a long time ago, Mr O'Keefe, but the Gilmore Jr Build pictures are all gone. And I would like to see them please.